Right to Repair - Overhauled S1E11 is now on your favorite podcast app!

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In this podcast your host Melissa Petersmann (The Diesel Queen) discusses diesel technicians, trucks, the diesel economy at large, and many more interesting topics in a style that only she can bring - raw and unfiltered. 

As always, thank you for watching and listening!

Transcript for Right to Repair - Overhauled S1E11

Speaker 1:

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Melissa:

Hey guys, welcome to Overhauled with The Diesel Queen. I am here today with two guests, one of which you guys have already seen. Today, I am here with Ilsa and her father, Hank. Hank, you're a mechanic, correct?

Hank:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Okay. So why don't you guys introduce yourselves again? Well, you again. And you, for the first time. And kind of explain what your background is a little bit and why you want to be here today. Because I know you have a very specific topic you want to talk about.

Ilsa:

This is my second podcast with Melissa. I am in high school right now, and I want to be a diesel mechanic when I'm older. I want to work on heavy equipment just because I think it's cooler. I got my start from my grandpa and dad and my brother, and they kind of just got me pulled into engines and stuff like that. And I tinker in the shop right now, but not on equipment or not on diesel equipment, just on small engines and stuff like that.

Hank:

And I'm Hank, and I had a computer networking business for 22 years and then retired from that. I have a small engine repair business now.

Melissa:

Okay.

Hank:

For the past 3 years.

Melissa:

So do you run that, then?

Hank:

Oh yeah, I run the business. It's a one-man show besides Ilsa helping out in the shop.

Melissa:

Okay. Cool. Cool. So do you want to go ahead and explain to everybody kind of... I know you have a very specific topic you want to talk about today. Do you want to kind of cover what that is and why you wanted to cover it on the podcast?

Hank:

Yeah, so I have read and researched a bunch about the Right to Repair. And this was a big topic many years ago also in the IT industry with, of course, Apple and Microsoft and some of the others. And it's become a bigger issue in the heavy equipment and repair world. So I wanted to get your opinion on it and have a little discussion and, hopefully, raise a little bit more information about the Right to Repair.

Melissa:

All right. So yeah, that's actually a really controversial thing that has been going around. I come from a dealership side, obviously. The Right to Repair is kind of an interesting topic, and I can take both sides on it almost.

And that's going to sound really weird for a lot of the people listening because it's like, "Oh my god, you should be probably a hundred percent Right to Repair, right? You fix your own stuff." Well, yes, I do. And I'm all for it, fixing your own stuff, right?

Held a banquet for all these big fancy people that were somehow a part of it. I don't know. I just showed up because I was told to show up. And we were supposed to talk to these people about the Right to Repair. And I'm not going to really discuss what we were supposed to talk about because I just mentioned the name of the company, which I probably shouldn't have done.

But we held a whole dinner for them and everything and kind of showed them around the shop. And what I kind of learned is the Right to Repair... Some people have some kind of skewed imagery of what that is.

So John Deere, for example, already sells... You can already buy all of the specialty tools as a customer. You can buy all the manuals. You can buy Service ADVISOR. There is a customer version that is missing... I don't think you can do a computer reprogram on the computer version. There are certain things that are missing on the customer version of the computer program called Service ADVISOR.

But what I did learn, which was an interesting thing, is some of these people don't want to just be able to fix their own machines. Because I'm all for that. I have a 20-year-old goddamn pickup truck in the driveway that I fucking fight on a daily basis. And I would love to have access to fucking all the data for that. I would love it.

But some of these people are... They want to be able to go in and change engine parameters. They want to go in and change their... They think they can change all their horsepower ratings and stuff. Some of these people are asking, under the Right to Repair law... And some of this Right to Repair vision around what Right to Repair is that they think they can just have these computer programs that can go in and turn up their engine power.

And I don't know how much you know about engine software and dealership access to engine software, but most dealerships don't even have access to that. We can't do that. We can't upload anything to an ECM without John Deere's approval. And John Deere has to send it to us in a little upload package, and then the computer does the rest of it.

It's a gray area with the Right to Repair for me because it's... A lot of it, it's already available to customers. A lot of this computer programming's already available to customers. But it's freaking expensive. Like, Service ADVISOR for customers is insanely expensive. And I don't necessarily agree with how expensive it is. But that's kind of my take on it. I'd be interested to hear what your take is on that.

Hank:

You in?

Ilsa:

Well, I mean, the reason that I'm kind of for Right to Repair is because I want to work on my own stuff. But also, I feel like it should be the owner's choice to say, "Hey, yeah, I do want to maybe not be so sure about what I'm fixing but try it anyway." Versus paying more at a dealer or something like that to get it fixed the correct way the first time.

And I think that if the owner wants to take that gamble, they can. Because I know you worked on the dealership side, and you had to fix a lot of mess-ups. So I know how-

Melissa:

You know how it works.

Ilsa:

... that is. We've been there. But I think it should be your own gamble if you want to take that or not.

Hank:

I'd like to expand on what you said about being cost-prohibitive to have those tools to work on the computers and stuff like that. And, say, I did some research in Germany. They have provisions now, in their proposed legislation, that says that there has to be a certain limit on the cost of what these tools can be so that they're not just making these hurdles to repair just financial. Also, with the access to parts. They're trying to do it that way.

So there's a lot of facets to the Right to Repair. And you've already brought up several of them. We already have a model in the automotive and light truck industry of how we can still be allowed to repair things and still have, actually, the right to repair things. But then the manufacturers also still have control of their product, which I heard is part of the problem-

Melissa:

Defaults.

Hank:

... for some of them.

Melissa:

So yeah, it's funny that you mentioned Germany because Wirtgen is actually made in Germany. And this is kind of a hot topic, but they're a parts advisor, service advisor. Like, computer programs are linked, which is really fucking awesome for Wirtgen products.

And you can be in a service manual or repair manual, and it will tell you what the parts are in the little diagrams for like a valve body, and it'll have little part numbers in it, and it'll have a link to the fucking parts book, which is pretty fucking sick. Or you can be in the parts book and click a part, and it'll take you right to the theory of operation for that part. It's pretty fucking awesome.

Hank:

Yeah, that's pretty great.

Melissa:

I was really hoping when John Deere bought Wirtgen, that they were going to get on board with that and kind of learn from them, but that did not happen. But yeah, the cost is... And that's the one thing with John Deere. I can only speak on John Deere, right, because that's really where all my experience is. But, sir, they've made it so it's so fucking expensive that nobody can really afford it.

Even the specialty tools, all of our specialty tools are made by OTC. And OTC is a decent brand, but you go and buy their Servicegard, their Servicegard JDG part number for anything, and it's freaking insane. Their front main seal installers are insane. Their injector pullers are insane.

I have a set of pins for a timing of 13.5. It has two pins, and then it's got... The feeler gauges for also doing the valve adjustment are like this big. So you have to pin it. Because it's the overhead cam, you have to pin it in that engine and then run the valve adjustments that way. Little tiny feeler gauge things. It's a little kit I bought. It's got the block pin and the cam pin, and the little feeler gauges. And that cost me like 250 bucks, $300 just for that. And then, it took me like three months to get it.

Hank:

Yeah, same. That's where we have a problem with when there's not a competition in the repair side of it that you don't have other people, other businesses, making the tools or allowed to make the tools or allowed to make even a better tool than maybe they offered. So if we get rid of that competition, which is what the anti-Right to Repair folks... They want to lock it down. And it's just, I think, just a profit motive.

Now, I want all the businesses to succeed. I don't want to make it cost-prohibitive or make it so that they have to pass a cost onto the buyers of the equipment because it's so hard to develop these things.

Me personally, I come from a small business background. I don't come from dealerships or corporate. And I think that the competition is what keeps the cost of equipment and tools lower. If you don't have the competition, then those prices are abnormally high for those things.

Melissa:

I agree. I agree completely on that. And not only did I spend an insane amount of money on two timing pins and a set of tiny feeler gauges, but it took me three or four months to get those. And I was working at the dealership. I ordered those through the parts department, at the dealership, as an employee. And I got an employee discount too.

I've bought, actually, a couple specialty tools from OTC, from John Deere. Because, you know, you go to some shops and... Especially with that particular tool set I bought, I got really fucking tired. This is a shop of like 25 mechanics. I got really fucking tired of every single time I needed them, they weren't in the fucking bin. And trying to track down a feeler gauge set that's that big... Because they're real tiny. No. Fuck that. So I got really tired of trying to track it down. So I just bought my own.

I've got a couple other OTC or Servicegard tools here and there that I've bought myself. I got their little slide hammer. They have this really sick slide hammer that's got a little self-tapping screw you can put in, and then it's like a... It's four seals. But it works fucking awesome, and I love it. But that's not the point of the story.

The point of the story is it takes... That one, I think, took like six months for me to get. That one took forever. And all it is, is just a little slide hammer, you know? Even from a dealership standpoint, it takes forever to get this stuff, and it's expensive, let alone from a customer's standpoint.

I kind of have always had the theory of, if you take care of your customers, even if you are offering them a little bit more help than maybe you should... Guess who they're going to go to when they fuck it, up or they can't figure it out, or they need help? They're going to go to the person that helped them or tried to help them.

I used to fight with one of my bosses about helping customers over the phone. And I've always told him like, "Dude, I'm going to do everything I can to help them over the phone. They need a code pulled up, I'll help them. They need general direction to go to in a diagnostic, I'll help them."

We had one guy that had a grader ripped apart. He had the tandems off, and he couldn't get the tandems back on the one side all the way to get the snap ring in the groove because there's a big...

So, Ilsa, and for you guys, kind of a visual. Grader axles are a big inboard planetary axle system, and they have big axle shafts coming out the ends, kind of like tractors do. And the tandem slide is that the big... The tandem housing is the big chain housing that both the wheels are on, and there's a sprocket inside of it. And that sprocket that's hooked to the chains, that's hooked to the wheel ends, slides right over that axle shaft. And then, there's the snap ring that retains it.

Well, he called us one time. He's like, "Hey, I can't get this snap ring on. I can't get this tandem to be pushed far enough in to get the snap ring in." And we're like, "I mean, you can try this and this now, but don't beat on it too much. But that snap ring should go in. There should not be anything that is stopping that."

I've done a ton of grader tandems because their original seals were junk, and they leak grease all the fucking time. I have done so many grader tandems.

And I'm like, "Dude, honestly, I've never ran into that issue." But I looked it up in the manual, and I tried to find things for him, and I spent like an hour on the phone with him. And eventually, he's like, "Well, I'm going to get it together enough to drive it to you." So that's what he did is he got it back together enough and drove it to us.

And long story short, they did not assemble it correctly. And that's why it was not going on all the way. And they beat the dog piss out of the axle shaft end so much with a hammer that that needed to be replaced.

But they were thankful that I helped them to the best of my ability with what I could do over the phone. And they were thankful enough that they were like, "I'm going to bring it to you. I'm good with that. You know, you tried to help me." And I think that's kind of the same thing with the Right to Repair is...

One thing you're paying for at a dealership it's not just the dealership has the specialty tools. It's not just because dealerships have Service ADVISOR. It's not just because they have the parts system breakdowns. It's also the years of experience of the mechanics, the shit they've seen over and over and over again, diagnostics they've done over and over and over again.

So I'm kind of a firm believer of let these people try to fix it themselves, and if they can, great. I do it all the time on my truck. I have fucking five trucks, and one of them runs. I know all about that. Let people try to fix their own shit. Give them the tools and give them the opportunity and give them the resources to fix it.

And when they need help or they can't figure it out, guess who they're going to take it to? The people that tried to help them and tried to give them the resources to do it themselves. So me helping out a customer in that sense is kind of a win-win situation. But some people don't necessarily agree with me and think I shouldn't be helping customers at all on the phone. So it's really dealer dependent.

Hank:

Yeah, we used to have that. I was a service writer more than 22 years ago. And we would have people wanting us to help them fix the car over the phone. This was an independent garage, only six mechanics. And they would ask for codes or what we thought about this or that. And sometimes we would help them with it, sometimes we wouldn't. But I think it's a customer service thing there.

In the automobile industry, we were allowed to... We had all datas and aftermarket service manuals and aftermarket tools to fix any of these vehicles. Sometimes you did have to go back to the dealer, though.

And the dealer has a place in the whole marketplace as far as... Some people will just... John Deere Green or whatever they are, they just love it, and they just want to go to the dealer and get it done. And they do this because they believe they'll get done right. That, again, that competition between a independent garage and a dealership is a healthy competition, I think.

Melissa:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree that the genuine or the general consensus with dealerships is that's where you take it. You know, you spend the extra money, and it's done right the first time. And it's done well. That's the general consensus of taking it to a dealership.

As I've worked in a dealership, I have learned that it's not about being a dealership, it's about the quality of the mechanics you have. Because I have seen dealership mechanics repair shit that looks like a shadetree mechanic in his backyard did it. So, it's...

Ilsa:

No.

Melissa:

Was that you?

Ilsa:

No. Sometimes. Not all of the times.

Melissa:

Cut the fucking ends off your zip ties. And if you have little wiring harness clamps... And I know there's a billion of them. I know some of these wire harnesses have a billion little tiny clamps on them. It's okay to not put one of them on, but take the whole fucking clamp off. Don't just leave it there, and then don't bolt it on. Just take the whole fucking clamp. That drives me nuts. That is actually coming from...

Hank:

Melissa, I've got a question.

Melissa:

... my own experiences. Yeah.

Hank:

I've got a question for you about your opinion... Again, with the Right to Repair, parts is an issue. Again, I'll just use the automotive industry because a lot of people will understand it. You can buy the spark plugs, the air filters, the oil, all that stuff in the aftermarket or from the dealer. I was working on a Bobcat skid-steer and it called for Bobcat fluid of some sort for the...

Melissa:

I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Hank:

And I'm like, "Well, is there anything special to it?" And you try to look up the specifications for it and the codes and all that. What do they call them? The SAE codes for them. And I was like, "Well, I could use automatic transmission fluid or something they said, but maybe I should use the Bobcat stuff." And I thought that was kind of weird when coming from automotive industry more than 30 years ago, all that stuff's standardized.

Melissa:

Yeah, kind of. There's oil you get every now and then, like the... Actually, the manual transmission fluid in my fucking 2nd gen pickups is a very specific fluid. And don't ask me why. But it's fucking expensive, by the way. But it has Mopar on it, and it says fucking... Well, it says NV4500 even though it's an NV5600. But it works on all of the NV model transmissions.

Yeah, we see that a lot in equipment. I mean, obviously, John Deere, all their oil is all John Deere. But some people don't quite understand is these oils are very specific. Hydraulic oil... And John Deere's not just hydraulic oil. There's three different hydraulic oils in John Deere. Actually, four, if you count the machines that take engine oil as hydraulic oil.

We've got Hy-Gard, which is a general hydraulic oil. You can have it in tractors that also run a sump that is included in the transmission. And the axles and the hydraulics is all one sump. You can run Hy-Gard in that.

You get in the construction side, and all the new stuff runs Hydrau, which is a whole nother updated hydraulic fluid for these machines. You cannot run that in any machine that has already run Hy-Gard, and you can not run that in any machine that is anything but. That's your hydraulic system. On loaders, for example, their hydraulics are Hydrau, which is actually the replacement for Plus-50 engine oil in the older loaders.

And then, the axles have Hy-Gard. Transition has Hy-Gard. But the hydraulic oil is separate. That's Hydrau. But Hydrau and Hy-Gard are two very different things. They are not cross-compatible. And you cannot drain a system that has one of those in it and fill it up with the other and not have problems. That's not going to be good.

Engine oil and Hydrau are backwards compatible. Then you have EX or... I think it's EX. It's EX85, 65? Excavator oil. That's zinc-free oil. That's the only oil you can run. Don't ask me why, but excavators cannot run oil with zinc in it.

Coming from a dealership standpoint, I understand why they make the specialty oils they do. There's a reason they have them in specialty, but what I don't understand is why it's so fucking expensive. The buckets of fucking Hitachi excavator oil are is fucking insane.

I don't know. Coming from a dealership mechanic standpoint, I would never want to put aftermarket oil in a machine. If I had a customer come in and they had some blue, random hydraulic oil they got from Tractor Supply, I would offer to change that oil out and change all their filters. Just because the dealerships and the manufacturers of these companies know what to put in their oil. They know what works best. And that is your best option. In my opinion, that is your best option is to use the oil that that manufacturer provided for that machine for that purpose.

Same with filters. I have seen a customer blow up two 13.5s in a row because he refused to buy John Deere air filters, and he bought NAPA ones. Then it took two of them to figure this out. Right? The first one, you could tell it was dusted. And we were like, "Well..." We weren't really sure. It was under warranty. Or... No, he had to pay for that one.

No, that one was under warranty. The first one was under warranty. But it looked like it was dusted. And, at first we're like, "Man, I don't know." Well, we send it through John Deere, right? And the warranty process takes forever. They asked for the engine back. They asked for all this stuff. Well, it turns out the customer then, later on down the road, dusts another engine, blows up another one. Doesn't blow it up but fucks up another 13.5 and his loader.

In that process, John Deere figures out that the NAPA air filter that they were using on this machine doesn't actually seal to the housing correctly.

Hank:

Oh, well, so they-

Melissa:

So they trashed two engines because they were too cheap to buy John Deere filters. Now, I'm not saying that's the solution for everything. Obviously, you know, you get to the automotive side, and... I always buy the Mopar filter with the little Cummins symbol on it for the oil filter for my truck. I always buy that.

But you go to like a normal parts store, and there is no Mopar air filter or Mopar fuel filter. And speaking from experience, the Mopar ones at the dealership are quite a bit more expensive. So I do agree that I think it would be better if they would drop that price a little bit just to make sure that shit was done right.

You know, things like oil and air filters and things for the lubrication system, that is so fucking important. That can make or break your entire fucking machine. And I don't necessarily agree with it being so expensive, but it's... I don't know if that's kind of what you're going on. I don't know if that's your thoughts on that.

Hank:

The filters are... Any of those consumables, that's a recurring cost for the equipment owner. And there should be a spec that the filter manufacturers should follow. And if they say, "Well, it meets the spec for the..." Say, the Mopar air filter for your pickup. "If it meets the spec, then it should still be good."

Now, I think we've all seen those videos on the internet about the oil filter things. The guys take apart the oil filters, and they say, "Oh, this one has this and not that." and all these things. So I think that the specification should be made public as part of the manufacturers' support of their machines. But to say, "Oh, you have to use John Deere filters." I don't buy it. Because then, again, they're trying to get rid of the competition, which brings the lower prices.

Melissa:

Well, they're trying to sell their parts, right?

Hank:

Yeah. But if there's a spec, the specification, saying that the oil filter has to have this pop off, this number of pleats in the filter or whatever or has to filter some certain micron measurement, if it meets OEM spec... And that used to be a term we used to have a lot in the automotive world. Then it's good enough. Then that's a viable part.

But as we're seeing now in, again, the automotive industry, people are buying parts off eBay that are substandard. They're no good. Ignition coils that are no good or... All kinds of stuff. Turbos and all this crazy stuff.

And, again, that's where, I think, the manufacturer can say, "Well, this is a spec. And these parts don't meet spec. Ours do." And they can use it as a marketing thing. But just to say, "You only can use our stuff." is not... I don't feel is acceptable to society and is outside the Right to Repair.

Melissa:

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. As of right now, though, I have seen firsthand what happens when you don't use dealership stuff. And NAPA claims to have the OEM spec, and that filter was obviously not OEM spec. It was just enough to not be OEM spec that it fucking trashed two engines that are like $75,000 apiece.

So it's kind of one of those... Coming from a person that owns my own stuff, do I wish there was a cheaper option to the exact Mopar filters and exact specs? Absolutely. And this goes down to all the parts.

My boyfriend has a 2015 Challenger that I did a video on on YouTube about the wheel-speed sensor. And he had a wheel-speed sensor code. I did my diagnostics. I'm like, "Yeah, it's definitely the sensor." So we go to the dealerships because I already know Mopar hates aftermarket electronics. So this is just, in my experience, I've had bad experience with the aftermarket electronics on Mopar.

So we go to the dealership. It's closed. I'm like, "Well, we need to get this fixed today." So we take the chance and go to O'Reilly's. And we go and buy the wheel-speed sensor, and it's like $60. Go and put it on. Doesn't make a fucking difference. And I'm like, "I know I diagnosed this right. I know I did." So I did the little swapnostics, and I put the left side on the right and the right side on the left, and the problem followed the sensor. And I'm like, "Well, this is why I don't buy aftermarket parts for fucking Mopar."

Go down to the dealership that has one, spend $180 on the same sensor that looks exactly the same, plug it in... I don't know what inside of it is different, but you plug it in, and you put it on that car, and it likes it, and it's fine, it's happy, and it's fixed. Don't ask me what $110, $120 difference in a fucking sensor made. But that was frustrating. So, you know, I get that.

And especially from a shop standpoint, like an independent shop standpoint, that's a cost on you guys too. If you guys put an aftermarket part on it that doesn't meet spec, right, and it doesn't fix it, and you have to go to the dealership and buy another one, you probably have to eat that part, that original part. So yeah, you probably have to eat the cost of that. So yeah, I definitely understand that.

Hank:

Could we talk about the used parts market in relation to the Right to Repair? Because that's in the German spec.

Melissa:

How do you mean used parts?

Hank:

So yeah, in the German government's interpretation of the Right to Repair, they wanted to facilitate the used part market. And I think it was mostly referring to electronics, as in cell phones and that kind of stuff. But when I was growing up... Of course, I'm an old guy. But we had lots of junkyards and stuff, and there was junkyards for tractor trailers and heavy equipment and stuff too.

And with, I'm going to guess, the environmental rules and also, there being less hands-on folks out in the world, there's less junkyards, scrapyards for used parts. And, again, in Germany, they're trying to encourage that market to come back.

And I've bought used parts off eBay, Facebook, or whatever, and you get some decent OEM parts sometimes. I don't know that... That's totally not applicable to dealerships. They're not going to put used parts in. But a small-time mechanic... We have a friend from Wyoming that fixes tractor trailers. And he buys old parts, especially some that are unavailable, off the used market. And if we don't embrace the used market, then we won't have that resource for repair.

Melissa:

Well, the dealerships struggle with that too. I, especially working in Wyoming, have ran across a lot of ancient shit. At one point, I've ran into ancient... Back when John Deere made fucking scrapers, right? No one... I didn't know. The first time my boss told me he's bringing me in a scraper to work on... And this was at the Green dealership back in the day.

It's like, "Oh yeah, one of the farmers is bringing in..." This guy, I think, he's got like a feedlot or something. He's like, "He's bringing in a scraper." My first envisionment is, "Cool. I get to work on one of those stupid pull-behind scraper pans. Awesome."

Then it shows up, and it's this whole ass fucking machine. It looks like a little mini Cat scraper. I'm like, "That's fucking cool." That thing had a contamination issue, a hydraulic contamination so bad to the point where I had to replace and/or clean out and rebuild every hydraulic and hydrostatic component on that machine.

And I'll tell you what, trying to find fucking parts and gaskets for that fucking ancient thing... This was an A, I think, or B. It wasn't quite as ancient as the one I worked at Onan, which was like literally John Deere made a tractor that was yellow and then bolted a scraper pan onto it. That was odd. That looked weird. That was weird.

This one was just a two... That one looked like... It was literally a four-wheel, like ag tractor, ancient ag tractor with a scraper pan. But this other one was like a full-on... Not only it has two wheels on the front, straight up looks like a Cat scraper. So I had to... I also did the axle on that. I took the axle all the way out, did the brakes, and everything for that.

We had to use what we called Vintage Parts, which is an online website that sells equipment parts. And a lot of it's [inaudible 00:36:22] or refurbished. But these people go around and they find machines, and they pull shit off of them, and they refurbish them to the best of their abilities.

But that machine was a fucking nightmare to try to get. It was cool, and I loved it, and it was kind of awesome from just the I love equipment shit standpoint. But trying to fucking put parts on that motherfucker... I had to... That was the machine that I learned how to make my own gaskets on. Because there was some gaskets that I did not know that... Wasn't even available.

And Ilsa, I don't know if you've made your own gasket yet, but there was this whole... All the old mechanics have this really cool way to do it that makes it look beautiful and perfect, and I promise yours is not going to look like that the first time you do it. It's going to look like some two-year-old tried to cut your gasket out. But that was one of my first experiences with machines that needed used parts or aftermarket parts.

I mean, I grew up in fucking... With old shit. I spent so much time in a fucking junkyard it's not even funny. I can't believe how much shit I robbed off of stuff in junkyards for my trucks and stuff. But piece of equipment standpoint, Vintage Parts was really the only option we had. And if they didn't have it, we were kind of fucked. And it was kind of like taking it apart and cleaning it and praying that it's okay. And this thing was heavily contaminated, so...

I would love to see junkyards like that. Obviously, though, you need the bodies and the people to do that. And unfortunately, there's already a technician shortage in this industry for all the shops, let alone more businesses popping up trying to do junkyards, which I think would be awesome. I've sent machines to junkyards before. Don't know where the junkyard is.

When I worked at the 4Rivers in Colorado, in Fort Collins, we had an excavator that came in that broke the fucking turntable, like the entire fucking turntable. You could reach up in the bottom and pull out the little bearing things. It was a complete... It wasn't just the bearing, too, it was the housing, like completely fucking broke. That thing went to the fucking scrapyard. Don't know where the scrapyard is, but I would like to because that is...

As dealership standpoint, we would only use Vintage Parts. Or Industrial Injection, who rebuild injectors and refurbish injectors and injection parts and shit like that. But as far as a small business operator or maybe just an owner, fuck yeah, let's have more junkyards. I'd be down for that. If I owned a piece of equipment, and I was struggling, I would much rather be able to go to a junkyard and... I mean, it's a gamble, right? But yeah, I don't have a problem with junkyards. I'm surprised Germany has junkyards.

Hank:

They have a problem with getting rid of stuff. Like, you can reuse or recycle iron and stuff like that. But all these plastic parts and the mixed parts, they can't recycle very well. And they don't have the space to just have a dump like we do, that we just... You know? So they have all these... And it might be a cultural thing, too, with them, I don't know, but they want to... And their version of a used parts is it's a warehouse where they actually took it apart and put it on the shelves and labeled it all-

Melissa:

That's what Vintage Parts is.

Hank:

Okay. Yeah. And I think that's going to be the modern version of a junkyard, a used parts place. It's not going to be like when I was a kid where I just walk out in this old field where they had a bunch of Dodge pickups, and I go get pieces. That probably won't happen too much longer.

But as far as the stock stuff... And, again, if they can make money, they'll do it, I guess. But then they have the environmental hurdles to adhere to, like everybody else. But... Ilsa's had a bunch of used parts on her pickup truck.

Ilsa:

Well, my truck came from a junkyard, yeah, so...

Melissa:

Nice.

Ilsa:

Yeah, wild. That's-

Melissa:

Gave it new life.

Ilsa:

Yeah. It's honestly my favorite thing is to just go to that junkyard and just look around. And that's where I got my-

Melissa:

I used to love that too. You can find so much cool shit in a junkyard. I am such a fucking redneck when it comes to junkyards. I fucking love them. We used to go all the fucking time. Yeah, I love junkyards.

Well, you can find all kinds of shit in there that you could use for everything, right? You can never walk into a junkyard and only take what you were originally going there for. Actually, you're probably not going to find what you originally were going there for, but you're going to go home with a fucking giant cart of shit. I've gotten engines from junkyards, axles from junkyards. I don't have an issue with junkyards at all.

Now, do I fully trust stuff from junkyards? Probably not. But, whatever, it's cheap, right? Who cares?

Hank:

Probably gets a few [inaudible 00:41:50], so that's...

Melissa:

I took a transmission... I had a white '99 1500 that I have lifted on like 35-inch tires, so it's a giant fucking little redneck 1500 truck. I had to put 4.88 gears in the front and the rear just to get it to do highway speeds because I put giant fucking tires on an underpowered truck. My dad has it right now.

But I got it stuck in a water puddle in Wyoming, trying to go hunting. I wasn't even trying to off-road. I was trying to hunt. And I got stuck in what they call, what I later learned, was The Jeep Eater, and I trashed my engine. Because it was stuck in the water, and the water got in through the seals and [inaudible 00:42:38] my bearing for fucking copper. It didn't matter. I tried to save it, didn't work.

Anyways, a few months down the road, I figured out through a wonderfully loud noise and an explosion of my transmission that there was probably also water in my transmission. And I went to a junkyard, and I pulled a used manual transmission out of that junkyard. Didn't put oil in it, nothing. I just slapped that motherfucker into my truck, and that is still in the truck. That was probably... I was your age. I was your age when I put... No, wait. I was not your age. I lied. I was 18. I was 18 when I put that in. And I am 26 now. So that used transmission from a junkyard has almost lasted 10 years.

Ilsa:

Heck, yeah.

Hank:

Melissa, in the automotive world, they passed a rule where the manufacturers had to provide parts for, I think, 10 years or something like that. Do they have that in heavy equipment?

Melissa:

I think so, but I would be lying to you if I knew the details on that. I mean, John Deere supplies parts for... It's more of a what's a common part. You know, if they're common parts, like fuel injectors or, I guess, back in the day, nozzles, fuel pumps, shit like that, brakes, you can usually find that. I've worked on a lot of old shit, and there has not been very many machines that I've had an issue with finding parts.

But every now and... It's usually the little things, like gaskets. Can't get a fucking gasket for it. You can get the entire valve body, but you can't get the goddamn gasket. The older you get, obviously, the harder it is to find parts for it. I don't know the exact years that they have to support, but, for the most part, the only machines I've ever ran into an issue for are ancient, like '60s, '70s. Ancient.

Hank:

I think a lot of it depends on manufacturer, but I just know that there's a minimum requirement for car manufacturers. I worked on a '58 BMW motorcycle, and I was able to buy every part for that. That was [inaudible 00:45:08]. I couldn't believe it. But then I went to buy a part for one of these Yangsang mopeds, and you couldn't get anything for it. There's toast. If you could go eBay, you maybe find something. But that's another part of the Right to Repair that I've seen as a discussion point is actual part availability. You can't fix it if you can't get the parts.

Melissa:

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of aftermarket companies that do that, which back to what we were saying about how aftermarket is not always the greatest option because they don't meet specifications or whatever. There's companies like LMC Truck that makes pretty much almost every kind of body panel or interior panel or cosmetic anything on old trucks. And I used to have the subscription for the 2nd gen Dodges.

But as far as a uniform thing to get aftermarket parts, that's kind of hard. What I've learned is if it's not a common issue, it's going to be really hard to find an aftermarket part for it. If it's old. Even my truck... My truck's not that old. It's only 20 years old. And I still have issues with... There's a lot of shit on the engine in specific. Even though it's Cummins... These fucking Cummins trucks are fucking everywhere.

Everybody wants a 2nd gen goddamn Cummins. So everyone has a fucking 24-valve or a 12-valve. You cannot fucking find a lot of shit on that engine in a normal parts place. You have to either go online or you have to go to the dealership to find it. Because O'Reilly's, NAPA, Advance Auto, none of them sell it.

One day, I was looking for a thermostat gasket, couldn't fucking find it. I had to go to the dealership for it. That was fucking maddening. It's constant. Every fucking goddamn thing I have to buy on that stupid engine, I have to go to the fucking manufacturer for. And trying to deal with Cummins where they ask for the serial number and all this other fucking, they need to know the fucking life history of your engine before they look up a part for you is fucking maddening.

So I just go to Mopar. So you type in the VIN, they give it to you. But I don't know... I'm all for that, but that would require somebody to start that up and create that business. And then, you need the infrastructure. The reason they have a limitation of 10 years is because every new machine and new vehicle that comes out has new different parts on it, right? You have to have an entire fucking assembly, an entire facility, and a manufacturing setting for those new parts.

And eventually, the more and more machines you get down your line... If Caterpillar supplied parts for all their machines until they were like the first machines ever all the way up, you'd probably fill an entire fucking state full of fucking manufacturing buildings just trying to make all those parts. So it's not necessarily realistic to expect them to have the infrastructure to support parts.

I mean, I wish it would go more like 20 years instead of 10 years, but... I mean, I'd love to see... There's just so many. I would love to see that. I'd have a hard time wrapping my brain around how that would be possible to have any company, aftermarket or OEM, that covers all makes and models of everything and has every single part that has ever been created for that.

Hank:

Well, that's part of the problem, I think, with planned obsolescence of some of these parts. So why would any manufacturer, across their product line, have so many different oil filters? Really, we could probably have 10 oil filters cover everything. It seems ridiculous to have... Every time we have a different model of skid steer, we have to have a different oil filter. It's kind of ridiculous. And the same with hydraulic pumps or injectors or whatever.

Maybe if we came up with some standards and say, "Okay, well, you need something that flows this much, use this injector." Don't remake it a whole different injector which requires a whole slew of parts related to it. Why can't we just use the same injector we used in the '70s or the '80s?

And I think that that's part of the planned obsolescence is to make it so that you can't use any old injectors or old injector parts. It's a whole new version, and we don't have... Then we won't have any used parts anymore. Because if that injector only fits one motor, then there's no reason to stock it or manufacture it in the aftermarket or any of that stuff.

In the IT world, the printer guys were doing that. They would make a printer, and then that stupid ink cartridge only fit a couple printers. It was a planned obsolescence thing. And then you could only get that ink thing from that one manufacturer. That was bullshit. It just held ink. It didn't have to be anything special. So, I don't know, I-

Melissa:

I mean-

Hank:

Go ahead.

Melissa:

I get where you're coming from with that. But I would rather try and make their shit better for the next machine than use shit that doesn't work the first time. John Deere is notorious for, "If it works really well, we're going to try to change it. But if it doesn't work that great, we're going to keep it." Don't ask me why, but... I know I talk shit on John Deere, but I loved working for John Deere. But if it is efficient, makes sense, or makes it easier, they don't do it. That was always my saying.

But shit, like... There's some fucking TikTok of this guy from John Deere, and he's taking this bolt out of something. I don't know what it is. And it's hitting the frame, and it doesn't come out. And he's like, "The fucking engineers." Yeah, I know.

But there is something about engineers that it's good where if you have something like my 2nd gen Dodge, for example. The fucking throttle position sensor is shit. And I am so fucking thankful that they did not fucking carry that onto the next fucking 8,000 Cummins engines that came in those trucks because that thing is fucking junk. I hate that motherfucker.

And, you know, it's... This is why mechanics get paid so much. As technology gets better, so are the electronic parts. Injectors in the '80s didn't need... This is diesel. Injectors in the '80s weren't electronic. The pump was electronic. And the pump... Maybe. Probably not, actually. That was probably all mechanical, mechanical timing, all of that.

Your fuel pressures for a diesel in the '80s were nothing compared to the fuel pressures that they have today. But you know why they have such high fuel pressures? Because the fuel atomizes, and it burns more efficiently, so it's better.

But with things like oil filters... Back to how I drive a 2nd gen Dodge. Every fucking 5.9 Cummins has the same oil filter. Every fucking 5.9 Cummins is about the same fucking oil filter all the way through all years. 12-valve, original 12-valve, I believe. Then the 2nd gen 12-valve, then the 24-valve, then the common rails 24-valve all use the same oil filter. I do not know if the 6.7 does. If it doesn't, I don't know why it doesn't.

With consumables, yeah, I can see that, like fuel filters and oil filters, air filters. Why not make it universal? Why not make it something that like, "Okay, maybe..." Obviously, bigger engines are going to need a bigger capacity oil filter, but if it's the same size engine or a similar size engine, you don't need to change the capacity of the oil filter. And if you weren't having problems with the original part, why do you need to change it? You don't need to change shit that's not fucked up.

I do know that emissions did play a part in changing oil. Part of the reason why diesel engine oil is different than it was is because of emissions. Because, as we all know, in a combustion engine, you do get some oil up the cylinder wall that burns. Might just be a little bit, but every engine has just a little bit of oil that gets past the rings and burns in the combustion chamber.

Hank:

If it's Ilsa's pickup truck, it's a lot.

Ilsa:

Junkyard pickups, baby.

Melissa:

Do you have a sweet ass blue cloud of smoke?

Ilsa:

Every once in a while, yeah.

Melissa:

Oh, god.

Ilsa:

If I don't start it for a couple weeks... Yeah. It's fine. It's a diesel, but that's fine.

Hank:

No, it's not.

Melissa:

I really hate to break it to you, but rolling coal and rolling blue smoke is not the same thing.

Hank:

That's cool.

Ilsa:

Yeah, I know.

Melissa:

But the reason they changed the oil, and this is also the same reason they changed diesel fuel, was because of the emissions. Because the filters could not handle the additives in that. That's why they had to change the ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel. That's why they had to change to a different engine oil was because some of the additives in those engine oils were contaminating or poisoning the exhaust filters.

Because the exhaust filters have... The DOC, for example, and the SCR system and all that shit, they all have very specific metals in them, actually, like minerals and shit. They're like really, really specific fancy fucking collection of metals and minerals in there to knock down your NOx and convert NOx.

But that also causes a problem with older stuff that were pre-emissions. You have to run... You have to treat your fuel system, actually. You should treat your fuel system if you are running ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel, which good luck finding anything else. Because that is actually part of the lubrication in diesel fuel, and the newer engines are designed to not need that. The older engines still need that. So it's a good idea to treat any kind of fuel system that is pre-emissions with a fuel system treatment and an additive for your injectors.

So things with machine parts, I don't know... It would be really hard to be able to keep up with technology and keep up with making things bigger, better, fatter if we kept the same parts for everything. Now, oil filters and shit like that, fuck yeah.

And do we need to change oils all the time? I don't see why. Unless there's a reason, like John Deere skid steers can't start, so they start putting 0W-40 engine oil or 5W-40 engine oil in their engines, in their skid steers, because they couldn't fucking get them started in the wintertime.

But I don't know if that kind of... I know my opinion might not quite match that but I... That's another one where it would be a really cool idea, but I don't see how it's possible with a lot of things.

Hank:

Well, I think... So ISO 9000 and a bunch of other these standardized systems to create standard products. You know, Bosch makes fuel injectors for lots of different cars and car manufacturers. And so they, in theory, could use the similar injector on multiple manufacturers and across multiple cars.

And the only thing that's going to make that happen is either bigger government, which I'm not huge for, or the requirement to say... And this is also kind of big government. To say that, "You have to supply those parts for so many years. If you're going to have a vehicle that you're going to have this fuel injector in, you have to be able to supply that fuel injector for that 10 years."

And if they do that across all equipment, including IT stuff, like cell phones, if they say, "Okay, Apple, you got to have all the parts to repair this phone for 10 years." Which seems crazy right now because nobody keeps their phone more than two years. That would require them... As a business model, they'd have to look at standardizing some parts and not having so many different ones. Then, that would, again, allow the aftermarket to make them because they could reverse engineer them.

I'm just trying to think of different ways that we can make it so this equipment is repairable. And again, that's the Right to Repair ideas that everything should be able to be repaired. And now we're getting to the point where clothes washers and appliances of all types are throwaway, which I don't like that.

Melissa:

Well, we live in a throwaway culture. People buy a new car every two years. Once the warranty's out, they get a new car. And we live in that culture. You know, it's not right-

Hank:

But do we accept it? Are we going to accept it, is the thing.

Melissa:

I mean, 90% of the population probably is because they don't want to fucking fix it. They ain't going to fucking put the time in. They ain't going to do it. I can't tell you how many appliances I've gotten and bought from people that are broken, and I fixed it in like three minutes, and it was fine. That's something that I would love to see changes the society. But we live in a society where... Everybody your daughter's age, ain't nobody wants to fucking do any of that. Nobody but her wants to do that.

And it's just getting worse and worse, getting rarer and rarer. And the technician shortage is so much bigger than just, "We need technicians." It's that the entire culture and the entire thing of everything is a throwaway culture. And trying to get people to understand that you still need people to repair this stuff... We don't have the bodies to repair what we have, let alone more.

And it's sad because then it's hard to start a business. Because then you end up... You know, can do the work yourself, right? You can do it. But where the fuck are you going to find help? So how the fuck do you expand when you can't find help? And then, obviously, you have the whole challenges to the Right to Repair, and you get the challenges with finding parts and finding specialty tools and all that stuff. It's a hard world to be in.

But back to the parts thing, I mean, if you could get John Deere to pick one oil filter, I would be impressed. If you could get John Deere to decide on one thing and stay that way, I would be impressed. And you would think it would be more cost-effective for them to do that. But they got to keep up with, "What's Caterpillar doing? What's Kamatsu doing? What are they doing? How are they doing it?" So there's a constant change of equipment.

And that healthy competition we were talking about earlier about repairing stuff is also part of the reason why our shit changes all the time. Because everybody wants to be the latest and greatest and best shit. Why that has to be included with the oil filter, I don't know, but it does, apparently. So I would love to see that.

We saw a huge parts issue in 2020. We couldn't get fucking fuel filters. We couldn't get oil filter, couldn't get fucking fuel filters. It was a disaster trying to get parts because no one was working in the John Deere warehouses to ship any of it out.

But would it be helpful if John Deere standardized some of their filters? Yeah, probably. And some of these... But, I mean, good luck. I wish. I wish. But these guys are way more focused on being the latest and greatest than they are about doing it so it makes sense.

Hank:

You know, Ilsa was thinking... After talking about it, Melissa, I think we need to find the old style gasket making kit for her, you know.

Ilsa:

Oh my god.

Hank:

With the punches and the special cutout stuff and all that so she could make her gaskets because-

Ilsa:

That would be funny, like, next year's Christmas present. But when we were talking about gaskets, it just made me think about all the generators that we've taken apart, and somebody did just form a gasket and just like... And it was horrible. So when you said that, I was like, "No, I'm not doing that."

Melissa:

There is a time and a place to form a gasket.

Ilsa:

Yeah. Not on everything.

Melissa:

Yeah. I had a boss at one point in time try and get another technician to do that on a valve because we couldn't find the part or we couldn't get the part in time. And it's like, "Bro, no. See all those little tiny holes? Bad things happen when you clog those. So let's find the actual gasket."

John Deere has... I love John Deere gasket makers. I'm a little biased because that's all I've fucking ever worked on. But they've got high flex gasket maker and shit like that that they actually use for axle flanges, oil pans, shit like that. But yeah, there's a time and a place for RTV and gasket maker.

Ilsa:

Comes in a can about this big, it's got a giant paintbrush, and you just smear that crap on.

Hank:

There you go.

Melissa:

Oh, the aviation gasket maker's like that or the gasket dressings and shit, yeah. Have some of that.

Ilsa:

Yeah, it's lovely.

Melissa:

I love gasket dressings.

Hank:

Oh, yeah. I would've messed the tape up.

Ilsa:

Yeah, you're like getting the little chisel thing in there, like, "Oh, yeah. This is great, man." It's horrible.

Melissa:

Yeah. Fuck that. That's why you get a fucking die grinder with a pad on it, and you take that shit off with that because I am not fucking... I have done that before. I have sat there with a fucking razor blade fucking trying to get that shit off, and yeah, it takes years. And fuck that. So I learned power tools are my best friend with that. So I don't take a gasket off. If it's on some older shit, it's like really fucking hardened onto one side, especially oil pans...

For somewhat reason, John Deere... I don't do this, but John Deere tells you to only put gasket maker on one side. On some of them. It's like, they only want you to put it on one side, or they only want you to put it on the corners, and it's only supposed to be on the block where the rear main seal housing meets the block. There's a gap there. So they have you put gasket maker there. On the front, it's the same with the timing cover. They have you put gasket maker right there.

I put it all the way around the front edge of the engine and all the way around the back edge of the engine on both sides. But when that shit hardens, trying to take that off, it's a fucking bitch. So I use a fucking die grinder with a buffer wheel to take that shit off. I scrape the big shit off with a scraper, and then I... Because it'll harden. Like, if it's on there too long, the gasket will harden onto that. And then you're sitting there, and you're trying to chisel it away with a fucking chisel, and you get that much off every five minutes. And it's so maddening. So yeah.

Hank:

Speaking of the adhesives and stuff like that, in the cell phone... I just tried to do the new battery and screen on my phone.

Melissa:

How'd that work out for you?

Hank:

That glue and shit is unbelievable. I mean, so hard to work with. Where I had a old Samsung phone, you just snapped the back off, put a new battery in, and off you went. It was really easy. So that's another part of the Right to Repair, is they... A lot of the cell phone manufacturers are using glass backs, and I haven't heard of a good reason why they're using them besides the idea that the average guy can't just replace his battery or whatever.

Melissa:

God, you sound like my father.

Hank:

Oh, yes. See? Your dad knows it's a conspiracy theory.

Melissa:

Do you know what the rest of the world does when their battery and their cell phone goes out? We get a new cell phone.

Hank:

Come on, you guys. That's part of the problem. That's your right to repair.

Ilsa:

He didn't get a phone case, so he had to put tape on the back of his phone.

Melissa:

I see that.

Hank:

It's too slippery. That's DIY, buddy.

Ilsa:

Yeah, but you should have seen us [inaudible 01:07:27] and take that off. It was like, "Wow, this could not be going worse right now." It was horrible.

Hank:

So if you designed it, if the engineers... So I love the darn engineers, but engineers designed it in a way that it's unserviceable. And this happens with equipment and cars and motorcycles and everything else.

Melissa:

Well, the little dude in that uBreakiFix can do it.

Hank:

Yeah. True.

Ilsa:

Yeah, that's who we followed.

Hank:

But he's really good.

Ilsa:

Yeah, we're not that good. Jerk.

Hank:

Not on this, no. But again, I think everything, including heavy equipment... I know, say, the Subarus [inaudible 01:08:01] putting engines in and that kind of stuff. All those stupid clips are designed to not be serviceable. They just break. And you're supposed to buy new clips. And it's not a big deal, but if you don't have the clips, you can't stick that stuff back together.

Ilsa:

Tape, baby.

Hank:

So why did we manufacture... Why did the engineers come up with that? Because it's cheap and whatever. If you engineer stuff to be serviceable... I think the last component I can think of the Right to Repair is that it has to be designed, engineered to be serviceable, not... And you guys are younger than me, so you're like, "Oh, I just buy a new phone." I'm like, "No, I just want to snap a new battery in and move on."

Ilsa:

I don't know when I've said that, but mine got run over by a skid steer-

Hank:

You damn kids.

Ilsa:

Mine got run over by a skid steer. He is like, "Oh, you think it still works?" "No, but okay."

Melissa:

I've ran mine over with a grader before, so...

Ilsa:

And dropped one in oil, didn't you?

Melissa:

Yes. That one lived, though. That was a work phone. That one lived.

Hank:

It lived?

Melissa:

It might have another box case on it. Yep, it lived. It would show up on a TikTok. But I have ran over one with a grader before, and that one did not live.

Ilsa:

Damn.

Melissa:

That was a personal one, though.

Ilsa:

Also, something I wanted to say that you touched on was like, "Oh, engineers shouldn't design it like this," but the engineers are getting paid by the people that own the company to make it not fixable. It's not the engineers.

Hank:

Oh no, it's the engineers. They're out to get us.

Ilsa:

They're here to destroy your life.

Hank:

That's right.

Melissa:

They are. Some mechanic, some field mechanic had an affair with an engineer's wife, and we're paying the fucking price for it.

Hank:

That's right. Yeah.

Melissa:

I had to figure out how to say that a little bit better than shop talk would say that, but yeah. Engineers... Once you become a mechanic, you are going to hate every engineer on the fucking planet, and you're going to want to fucking burn all of them in your sleep.

Ilsa:

Nope. The one I stand by is Toyota... I think it's FJ. Whoever made that car, when you take the oil filter off, it has a little... And it goes down and then drains right into the pan. But I put the pan in the wrong spot. But it does drain right into the pan if you do it right.

Hank:

Yeah. Their little engineers seem to be pretty decent about-

Ilsa:

Yeah, they're like, "Hey, let's do it the right way."

Hank:

They're still serviceable, right?

Ilsa:

Yeah.

Melissa:

There's some things but-

Ilsa:

And it's right on top. It's right on the top. It's so easy to get to. I didn't even need to stand on a stool or anything. Just like Rachel-

Melissa:

How old is this?

Ilsa:

What?

Melissa:

How old is this car or whatever you're working on?

Hank:

2008, I think.

Ilsa:

Yeah. '14.

Melissa:

It's part of your problem. 2022... Well, I guess 2014's not bad, but all the new shit is like you got to take apart half the fucking machine to get to-

Ilsa:

That's true.

Melissa:

... one thing. You ever tried to split a tractor before? To do an oil pan? That's cool.

Ilsa:

No.

Melissa:

You got to take up the entire fucking... You got to strip it down to nothing. Just to do an oil pan gasket on like a 6000S tractor.

Hank:

That's terrible.

Melissa:

Big tractors don't have frame rails, which... I need to remember to talk to this camera. Big cameras don't have frame rails. They are a engine bolted to your axle housing, which is bolted directly to your transmission, which is bolted directly to a spacer housing, which is then bolted directly to a pump drive housing, which is then bolted directly to the rear axle.

Ilsa:

Oh my gosh.

Melissa:

Yeah. It's real cool-

Ilsa:

Not me. I'm working just like, four bolts, and everything's out. You can see everything, take everything apart. It's great.

Melissa:

Yeah. I have spent lots of time cursing engineers, like, "Why the fuck? Why does this need to be?" And there's so many things to where it would be a five-minute repair if you could get all the bolts out, but you can't.

Ilsa:

Yeah.

Melissa:

When you become a mechanic, invest in... If you buy ratcheting wrenches, make sure you buy ones that are reversible with the little switchy thing. Okay? You know why?

Hank:

Because you back them out, and then you're stuck.

Melissa:

Because you can back it out, and you can't fit it all.

Ilsa:

I've done that somewhere, actually.

Hank:

She did this, yeah.

Ilsa:

Yeah, I was working on a lawnmower. It got stuck between. I'm like, "What's my next step? I can't-

Melissa:

Oh, you take apart the rest of it.

Ilsa:

No, I just yanked it out. It wasn't my tool, it was his, so I just, like, freaking... Job done after that.

Melissa:

You got lucky you could yank it out because I-

Hank:

Didn't you get the electric ratchet stuck too?

Ilsa:

That's what I'm talking about, the electric ratchet. Because the thing's on the back of the spinny part, and then it got stuck. That's okay. It's not my tools. If it's his tools, I'll just yank it out of there. But if it's mine, I'd like to figure out a better way to do that.

Melissa:

Make sure you-

Ilsa:

I don't have a second electric ratchet, so I can't take the other pieces off.

Melissa:

Oh, Lord. Don't do that to a mechanic's tools in the shop, or you'll be fucking whipped for that.

Ilsa:

No, it's just him. It's just him.

Melissa:

Okay. That's fine.

Hank:

Yeah. You've probably ruined your dad's tools or lost them.

Melissa:

Honestly, I did not wrench with my dad that much when I was younger.

Hank:

Oh, okay.

Ilsa:

Do you put your tools away, though? Because that's one of his biggest things with me is I don't put tools away when I'm done.

Hank:

No.

Ilsa:

They just sit on the table for the next week until I use them again.

Hank:

What do I look like? The tool monkey that puts all the tools away?

Ilsa:

It's your shop.

Hank:

Oh. Yeah.

Melissa:

I am not very proud to say that I don't put my tools away. I am so bad about that. Now, when I worked in a shop... Okay, hold on. Before dad gets mad at me. When I worked in an actual shop and at the dealerships, they made me. They would make me. They will be on your ass every day to clean up your shit. Because it's a dealership, right? Or it's a shop. They want it to look nice. They don't want customers coming in and being like, "What the fuck's this person's entire toolbox doing on the floor?"

But now that I have my own shop and I'm doing my own shit, I have had stuff out for the last four months that I have not put away yet. So that's... Put your shit away, though.

Hank:

Ilsa, did you got to tell her about tool bench bankruptcy?

Ilsa:

Oh, workbench bankruptcy. You'll know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like, we have an issue with shop table space because we've got, I think, four or five-

Hank:

Because you leave all the tools out.

Ilsa:

Shut up. We've got four or five tool boxes and then a workbench that's like for welding. How long's the shop? It's the same length of the width to the shop.

Hank:

24 feet deep.

Ilsa:

We've got 24 feet of freaking table space, and it's always full. And so, you just take a giant Home Depot bucket, and you shovel all of the stuff into the Home Depot bucket. And then you put the bucket in the back corner and sort through that when you get a chance. But that's like never.

Hank:

When is that chance? When are you going to sort that bucket?

Ilsa:

When you lose a freaking bolt that you need. That's when you go through the box.

Hank:

Perfect.

Ilsa:

But yeah, it's called workbench bankruptcy, and it's lovely. It happens once a month.

Hank:

Yeah, you just claim bankruptcy on the workbench and just dump it all over.

Ilsa:

Yeah. It's great.

Melissa:

We had this wash hand at Onan in Commerce City. Did you ever meet Ryder? Probably not. Have you ever been to the Commerce City Onan shop?

Ilsa:

Mm-mm.

Melissa:

Okay, so they had this wash guy named Ryder. I was going to spare you the details of who this guy is because I'm trying to figure out how to say this politically correct. Ryder was borderline... I'm not sure. He was legal but barely. If he was legal, it was barely, right? He struggled with English. English was not his forte. Actually, he knew English. He just pretended he didn't sometimes when he didn't want to do something. That was cool. No, I'm serious. I'm not kidding you.

But he would be told, right, he'd come and be like... He'd be told he doesn't have anything to do. He refused to use the computer. So we'd call the power washer his computer, and he'd say, "Computer's broke." So, while somebody else was trying to fix the power washer, which is usually just an hour in, they'd be telling him to clean.

Well, I like Ryder. He's cool, but that doesn't mean... So he would take... He'd do the same thing. He would take everything on top of your bench, your tools, all your parts, all your bolts, everything into the trash. Or he would take it all-

Ilsa:

We don't throw them away.

Melissa:

[inaudible 01:16:53] the fucking thing.

Ilsa:

In a bucket.

Melissa:

And sweep it into this... We had these big giant floor pits in the Commerce City shop. And I can't tell you how many parts and tools he swept into that thing trying to help. It's like-

Ilsa:

I've done that too. We've got grates in the shop floors, like for a drain, and freaking bolts go right through the grates to slide, bolts go right down. So you got to take the whole floor drain up. It's like a... Not 15, it's like 10 foot probably, the floor drain, to take up to get one bolt. Or my wood burner, the end of the wood burner, I used to drop that in every single-

Melissa:

These pits were probably five feet deep and as wide as my... They're for floor drying. Yeah, we had to pick them up with loaders to unload them and dump them out. So if you dropped a bolt down that, you might as well give up.

Ilsa:

I just think it should-

Melissa:

Advice from a future mechanic, organize your hoarding junk. That is my advice. Organize your hoarding junk. I spent three years, four years of my mechanic career with five-gallon buckets of bolts. Don't do that. It will piss you off so much every time you need to find a bolt that you got to...

And you're going to... I know you all know where this is going. You're going to dump the entire fucking thing out on the floor just to find one fucking bolt, and then you got to put it all fucking back in. Fuck that. Don't do that. Find a drawer in a toolbox and get the little dividers in there, and organize it and be like, "Okay, biggest the smallest." Or, "Smallest the biggest." And if you fill that up, the rest go in the trash. Quit hoarding it.

Ilsa:

I like the trash option because we've got some... They're little... They're this big. I don't know where you got this divider thing from, but it's a giant shelf, and it's so full of bolts and nuts, and washers that the shelf fell over. So you can probably get rid of some of it-

Hank:

Exceeding capacity, I guess.

Ilsa:

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's what it's meant for.

Melissa:

That's my advice is find something to organize your junk. Even spare parts. Find a way to organize, have a cabinet or a drawer for gaskets and seal kits and whatever else, and keep it organized. Because when you first start... When I first started in the industry, it wasn't a big deal, right? I'm like, "Oh, I have a five-gallon bucket worth of bolts." It's like, "This is my little gold mine," right? "I live off this shit. Because when I lose one, which I'm going to every time, I got it in here somewhere."

Then, about the 8th million time you have to dump that motherfucker out on the floor... Because now you got two. Because you're a hoarder. You got to dump them out on the floor and dig through it. I don't have as many bolts as I used to, but I know what bolts I do have, and I can see them all. And I know for a fact if I got one or not. So I don't got to fucking spend eight years digging through my fucking bolt bucket to figure out that I don't have a fucking bolt. So words of advice, organize. Organize that shit.

Ilsa:

You've got to [inaudible 01:20:16] you currently.

Melissa:

They'll probably make you. If you work at a dealership, they're probably not going to let you have a big giant bucket of bolts unless you hide it in your toolbox. I've had a couple of dealerships that did. They didn't care as long as it was next to your toolbox and kind of out of the way, but the last... The dealership I worked at in Wyoming, the last one I worked at was... My boss was a little bit of a clean freak, and you could not have shit like that.

Ilsa:

[inaudible 01:20:47]. Balas.

Melissa:

The odd. What did I just say? Stop hoarding shit.

Ilsa:

Okay. Well, that, too, but if you got to-

Hank:

When your truck moves.

Ilsa:

... keep it in the truck.

Hank:

If you had a truck that rides like that... It's so full of stuff.

Ilsa:

I'll just put the six [inaudible 01:21:05] we took out back in, and it'll be fine.

Melissa:

Are you just going to fill up your entire bed of bolts? That's going to be your bolt [inaudible 01:21:11] your truck?

Ilsa:

Well, yes. But I have a toolbox, and there's a Trend toolbox, and I feel like that's going to be full of bolts.

Melissa:

Like I said, keeping shit's great. Seals, bolts, little tiny fucking interior screws. Keeping shit like that that you find or you have or you thought... This is what usually happens to me. I think I lose it, and then I buy a new one, and then I find it later. That's usually what happens. So that's how I end up with all my bolts. So, keep shit. It's awesome.

I have fucking these little lidded buckets full of wiring harnesses. And I took wire harnesses that John Deere didn't want back for warranty, and I cut all the connector ends off. And I got one that's connectors and then one that's like bulkheads, like ECU connectors and shit. I got shit like that. I got a bucket full of fittings. And these are just little work-in things.

I got one full of fittings. I got a drawer for all my caps and plugs that are nice and organized. It also helps you... With caps and plugs, I definitely recommend organizing that shit if you're going to be working on hydraulics and stuff because you want to keep track of that shit. Hydraulic caps and plugs are like gold in the equipment industry, and people will fucking swipe them things.

So if you loan them out, make sure... I'd stamp your initials on all of them. And it sounds tedious and stupid, but do it. Stamp your initials on all of them and keep them organized so you know what you have and you know who you lend them out to because they are not cheap. They look like they're just some stupid hydraulic cap and plug. But those things are not cheap. But yeah.

Hank:

Then, again, that's tying into that standard again, the standard of having... Bolts and screws are all standard. They're standard sizes and stuff. And if we had standardized sensors, mass airflow sensor maybe, or... Instead of... I don't know, it's probably thousands of mass airflow sensors. Instead of that, if we had 10 or a hundred, well, then you could have a few spares to... We used to call them test parts. It's known good-

Melissa:

I have test parts.

Hank:

... parts, use them to scrub it in. Yeah. If we didn't have them-

Melissa:

I actually saw a controller in my toolbox. It's a little one, but...

Hank:

Again, if we didn't have such a ... If we didn't let the engineers redesign everything every time they do something, then we'd have some standardized parts that we can use as tests. Well, thanks, Melissa. We appreciate you having us come and talk.

Melissa:

You're welcome. Bye, guys.